No. As we understand the problem, as the 3.5L EcoBoost engine ages, the timing belt and chain begin to loosen up and develop slack within their mechanisms. Timing chains are the critical link between the crankshaft and camshaft. Most, if not all, of these problems will illuminate the Check Engine light. 12. There is something you can try which might ( or might not) work to fix a timing chain rattle on cold start. Dmitry has been an editor and author at Cararac.com since 2015. Such a chain can go more miles with no problems. GM has a monster problem with these motors. The belt can just break and leave you with a badly broken engine. The possible cause. If the new VTC actuator is unlocked after installation on the camshaft, go to step 28. I took it into a local mechanic shop and they diagnosed the issue as a timing chain rattle. It lasts for less than 30 seconds, but is consistent. We also use third-party cookies that help us analyze and understand how you use this website. Who installed it??? :grin2:. GM 2.0, 2.2 and 2.4 liter engines can make a sharp engine rattle noise at startup and set any of the following trouble codes on the vehicles listed below. May 7, 2021 I have a 2014 Rav 4 with 65k mi on it. i just put it up there with the " add a quirk" list. So I have a chatter on cold start. It's not really damaging nor much of an "issue", just an annoyance. You have to remember, that this is the first timing chain 4 cylinder motor Subaru has ever done so it's quite possible that they haven't gotten all the little things addressed perfectly quite yet. Hey! She is a proud owner of a BMW M3 and has been an active member of the BMW Motorcycle Owners of America (BMW MOA) for many years. 51. Secure the timing chain to the A/C compressor hose using a wire or zip tie to keep it from falling into the front cover. 49. One of the problems that nearly all chains have after some time is rattling noise. How did you confirm its the chain? 13. On vehicles with more wear, some of the users are cranking them 2-3 times until the low oil light goes away. Table of Contents show If the cassettes (guides) are worn, there is no helping the situation without remove and replace of the timing set (R&R). These kits run about $400 and take plenty of tinkering. On a scale of 1-10, it's a 2 for me. Normally the wife and I just look at each other and shrug. Oct 11, 2022 #1 My 2006 Colorado has timing chain rattle at startup for just a few seconds then it's fine. Replace the VTC actuator. E46 Fanatics Forum is not in any way affiliated with Bayerische Motoren Werks AG, VerticalScope Inc., 111 Peter Street, Suite 600, Toronto, Ontario, M5V 2H1, Canada. The MasterLube is the one that most folks seem to have gone with. Mine is at the dealer now. 16. My guess is it's one of the timing chain guides. Like this content? I believe Im having the onset of the same problem on my 2017 SCREW. not too worried about it but it is annoying. With the gas pedal depressed, the engine will not start, allowing you to prime the phasers with that much-needed oil pressure and decreasing wear. Modern, computer-controlled charging systems found on todays vehicles need proper test procedures no guesswork allowed. Do you hear a loud engine rattle that lasts about two seconds? 1. 30. Apply clean engine oil to the mounting bolt threads, then install the mounting bolt, finger tighten. 54. Many 0W16 oils have a new donut certification mark on the bottle called API SN-PLUS and SN-PLUS Resource Conserving. User sixpack577 on the FordF150 forum has one of the best ideas Ive seen. Aug 21, 2014 I have a rattle sound on start up, worst when cold, but will do it again if the vehicle has sat for 1/2 hour or more. Mistakes made can result in costly comebacks. Okaymy wife primarily drives our 2015 OB Limited. If any seals are damaged, replace them. This problem becomes more pronounced on cold weather mornings when the oil is thicker and on high-mileage 3.5L EcoBoost engines. Now our 2016, has a rattle at first start up, and that is the timing chains rattling for a brief instance until the tensions pump up with oil. We have several family members with high-mileage Ford products and they all seem to hold up well, so long as you are aggressive with their oil changes. Reinstall the EVAP canister purge valve bracket. H6 OBW VDC, H6 OB Sedan, Tribeca, Lifted XT6. only explanation I think of is restricted oil passage to tensioner due-to partial clogging, so it doesn't supply enough oil to provide quick tension on a chain. ~ The Cheshire Cat (, 2019 2.5i Limited Forester (hers) (4th Subie), 2014 Impreza Premium (mine)(#5). Because the tensioner is hydraulic, and pressurized with engine oil. Feb 13, 2015. Necessary cookies are absolutely essential for the website to function properly. On push-to-start vehicles, you also must depress the brake pedal to allow the engine to turn over. My car's problem was a rattle during start up. Would like to do that test myself. Oct 15, 2017 I was able to diagnose my noise on cold start with a scanner. Timing chain noise is commonly most noticeable during cold startup of the vehicle when oil pressure and oil flow is at its lowest. Ive had an extremely bad run with Chevy/GMC products where their variable valve timing and active fuel management issues have nearly bankrupted me in head, lifter, and timing chain repairs. Also the rattle is only the first half a second after start. Up to 50% of turbocharger failures are due to oiling problems. The oil level is right in the middle of normal on the dipstick. Is a brake light and running light the same? Tally how many spark plug wires are present. Cost at the Mechanic: $1,624 to $1,879 This is a pretty intensive maintenance/repair task that can take a mechanic several hours to complete. You might try adjusting it. Performance cookies are used to understand and analyze the key performance indexes of the website which helps in delivering a better user experience for the visitors. Jan 7, 2014. Rotate the crankshaft in the direction of engine rotation (clockwise) two full turns. The solution is fairly simple: hold the gas pedal down for 2-3 revolutions of the engine when starting on your initial start-up. Turns out the Ford cold start rattle is a cam phaser rattle. This procedure does not require the complete removal of the cam chain and associated parts, so repair time is shorter. Perfect timing is critical in the performance world, and now, its required by your regular customers too. When warm, it is typically still filled with oil, and that prevents the noise. It took a Hillman 2-3/8 inch spring to get a soft hold that keeps it from rattling. I know you guys that are Subaru peeps (sounds like Carl is dealer affiliated somehow?) These cookies help provide information on metrics the number of visitors, bounce rate, traffic source, etc. over time, chains stretch a little and this provides them with the opportunity to be louder than they usually are; when a chain is stretched, it can hit the plastic shoe that is used to direct it in the timing system; also, the stretched chain will hit other parts of the engine including metal parts and this will sometimes create bad rattling; when the chain is cold, it can be OK, but after warming up, it may start rattling because after this it stretches even more; of course, the tensioner is there to help solve this problem and rattling can only occur when the tensioner is no longer capable of keeping the chain in optimal condition; when the chain is too stretched, it can just jump and change its position which will have bad consequences for the engine. Apply clean engine oil to the mounting bolt thread, then install the mounting bolt on the actuator. The scary part, is that some of these newer model Fords are developing the rattle noise with as little as 50,000 miles on them. 40. Is been less than 6k miles since I did the timing chains. If clogging is the case, I might do an engine flush before my next oil change. Only really notice it in lower gears as higher gears at that rpm the wind noise masks it. Come join the discussion about M performance, turbo kits, engine swaps, builds, modifications, classifieds, troubleshooting, maintenance, and more! The cookie is set by GDPR cookie consent to record the user consent for the cookies in the category "Functional". carolinasbmwmoa.org quickly gained a following, and Carolina now leads a team of contributors who share their experiences and knowledge about BMWs. Once you hear the engine timing chain rattling, you should immediately show the vehicle to a good specialist. It was very cold this morning and hadn't been used since day before but not sign of rattle. Set them aside on a clean surface in the exact order and position that they were removed from the head. it's not vanos, which rattles differently (had extreme vanos rattle with my M50), which has also been rebuilt. 38. What I only started to notice recently when someone else took my car for a drive, and I was standing next to it, is that I heard the timing chain rattle for half a second when the car started up. How To Fix Timing Chain Noise on Cold Start (Maybe) You also have the option to opt-out of these cookies. Out of these, the cookies that are categorized as necessary are stored on your browser as they are essential for the working of basic functionalities of the website. Just curious does anyone with this problem have a tune installed? May 27, 2021. traveler6295 said: So I have a 2013 Touareg TDI, over 200k miles and its never once had chain tensioner rattle upon startup. I had my B8 S4 for 52k miles and never had a startup rattle. I see a trade in very soon. Was the engine warm or cold? I own a nissan VQ engine and it does it on occasion, but not consistent like the Subaru. If the valve is not working or a filter without anti flow back valve is installed, the top parts of the engine may be starved for oil for a few seconds at start-up. These cookies will be stored in your browser only with your consent. The possible cause could be the variable valve timing control (VTC) actuator is defective. But the rattle goes away in seconds, and the SUV performs amazingly. I would hate to see how you function in daily life. Hi there yes, a worn or stretched timing chain, weak timing chain tensioner, or worn timing chain guides can cause misfiring, cam timing problem codes, low power and generally poor running of the engine. And then start the car normally. How long should an average timing chain last? . Completed my timing chain rattle slap on cold start-up job. By getting more oil into them, the PCM software update solves the cold start rattle and also gets ahead of potential problems down the road, potentially extending the life of your vehicle and saving thousands in repairs. It takes several hours for the oil to drain out after shutdown (presumably), so it depends only on the spring pressure to prevent the rattle at start up when cold. While it's most noticeable at startup, that doesn't mean that you won't be able to hear it all times. Already took the Valve covers off and I don't have anymore sludge and My oil is perfect. If you guys find this mildly annoying. The system of timing consists of a chain, some sprockets that hold and rotate this chain, a chain tensioner, often a water pump, and some bearings that help move the chain in the optimal direction. When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission, which supports our community. As many of you guys know, I performed a complete M54 rebuild last year. Could you post a mini DIY? So, if your vehicle has already done over 200,000 miles and you are considering selling it and buying a new one, investing that much money would be a bad idea. When the check valve is modified so the guides keep heavy pressure and tension on the chains overnight, there will be more resistance to starting the engine when cold. For a luxury model, the price of a replacement kit may cost over $4,000. 2010 Buick LaCrosse. . Make sure it is in the unlocked position. When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission, which supports our community. See if you hear it from outside. Your motor was engineered to consume regular diesel only. Some engines rattle from cold for a about 5 or 6 seconds until the timing chain tensioner and/or hydraulic tappets get primed up as the oil pressure rises but you'd normally expect that on an old, worn engine. Ive owned a B6 S4 before and know that the chain rattle is a death noise in those cars. He hooks a spring to the wastegate to stop it from rattling. Yesterdays turbo lag was eliminated thanks to years of development and a bit of clever engineering. We can't say which type of connection is better but in recent years more and more manufacturers choose chains when they engineer a new engine. Recommended Services. The Harley folks know where to get it. A common finding in a vehicle with a bad timing chain is unusual rattling noise when the engine is started or when brakes are engaged. Typical costs may include Mechanic Repair Service and Car Parts cost. Thanks PJ. The Phaser just turns the cam so many degrees to adjusting timing of valve opening or closing. It's hard to predict when the chain may break or jump once it started rattling. Remove the camshaft auto-tensioner cover. 05 srx awd v6 (gone), '07 GXP, 2010 li'l red wagon 3.6. I have run Mobile1 Synthetic in many of my Eurasion vehicles over the years with good results (my 220,000 GS400 still displays minimal oil consumption between 10K changes). Check "Remember Me?" How many hours does it take to replace a timing chain? A forum community dedicated to BMW E46, E90, and F30 owners and enthusiasts. LOL. Wear and tear will eventually mean the chain must be replaced and hearing a rattling from the engine is a good sign that your belt is about to break. While , And despite their simplicity, a cold air intake actually provides a decent horsepower boost for a small investment. Starters are only designed to work in 3 to 5-second intervals. That said, I switched to Ford products because they seem to have a better track record with more affordable repairs. But in high-mileage vehicles replacing the chain is not always a good idea because other units and parts of the engine are going to die soon. Sure enough, the timing chain was actually loose. It would rattle everytime I start the engine after it was sitting for about 1 hour or so. I fought hard for a new engine but Ford said rebuild. This sound is particularly noticeable when you start the Frontier. Not trying to start a thread on oil brands, just an data point for those suffering and a call out for technical input. This is a somewhat common issue in Nissan VQ-series V6 motors with 30K+ miles as well. 15. The bypass valve is to bypass the filter if it becomes plugged. If you click them and make a purchase, we may earn a small commission. agree, the short rattle sound at startup is mildly annoying. Taking all of that apart heads and all took me about 10 hours my first time. Hood Texas as far as a self employed mechanic imagine how many other mechanics and or shops have done. I think that might be a bit excessive. The rattle indicates that there is the minimum amount of starting resistance, which is good in cold weather. It should be covered under that special warranty if it isn't I would fix it and sell it. I would bet the upside down oil filter does have an effect, though. 35. But my parents 14 T3 TDI has started having the rattle on startup. The system is not very complicated but it can fail, unfortunately. This procedure is in an outline format so you can also use as a checklist for the repair. Also, do not use an impact wrench to tighten the mounting bolt. 47. I often lurk but this is my first official post. How many miles does a BMW timing chain last? These cookies ensure basic functionalities and security features of the website, anonymously. Then stop at the TDC mark. 27. Functional cookies help to perform certain functionalities like sharing the content of the website on social media platforms, collect feedbacks, and other third-party features. What can go wrong? MI5. Its behind the timing cover. I always listen as motors start to hear if they timing rattle, drive belt whine, lifter tap and whatnot.. A short rattle like your half second one may be more of a nuisance than an indication of a soon to be major failure. But opting out of some of these cookies may affect your browsing experience. If the oil level is correct, the noise may be caused by the timing chain tensioner. After the mounting bolt is torqued, rotate the VTC actuator to the locked position. Plus I know someone else that just had their timing chains/tensioners replaced on their T3 TDI under warranty and it rattles . Remove the frame (strut) brace (if equipped). My Wife's Lexus with the yota 3.5 V6 has a chain and makes 0 noise on startup. No codes/DTC? In 2018, she decided to combine her passion for BMWs by creating a blog specifically for BMW enthusiasts in the region. Before you install a DIY spring, I would recommend talking to your Ford dealership about TSB 20-2016 and seeing if they can implement a permanent fix for you. VerticalScope Inc., 111 Peter Street, Suite 600, Toronto, Ontario, M5V 2H1, Canada. Personally I would take it to a different dealer. Unusual noises: Especially when idling, but not just when idling, you may hear your engine rattle. If it's all about a slightly stretched chain, then nothing to worry about. I still think I might sell it after it's repaired. Your email address will not be published. The average cost to replace timing chain tensioner is around US$1000 to US$1600. To make a long story short, two of the . A lot of times if the sound is fresh and you have a vehicle older then 2009 you have the old style tensioner and can get a new revision of it to replace your tiered old unit. By Andrew Markel Dec 22, 2017 "You can do good or you can do well. Will thicker oil reduce timing chain noise? Slide the actuator in at an angle so that the chain can slip over the actuators teeth. The best thing you can do is to stop a vehicle and call a tow truck. Posts: 658. Step 1. 50. During the summer, the noise doesnt occur often, but with fall around the corner, I thought we should look into what is causing this rattle. They aren't hard to do its just repetitive. It was NOT the higher pitched rattle of the wastegates. Disclaimer: Links on this page pointing to Amazon, eBay and other sites may include affiliate code. Taking it longer to get filtered oil to the engine? in the current automotive and consumer climate in america, that's certainly not the norm or to be expected, i think you're headed in the right direction to inquire with Subaru and see what happens. The oil feed passageways clogging was a common issue in the past. In the final step, torque all bolts in sequence to 12 Nm (8.7 lb-ft). I have noticed a rattle on cold start up, but it's not doing it every time. Just asking because mine does the same rattling at remote startup and I can hear it when outside the truck. Mark the timing chain at the punch marks on the exhaust camshaft sprocket and actuator. Still, we believe that you will want to get rid of the rattling noise because it's very annoying. Since oil is the magical cure, a lot of folks are now installing aftermarket pre-oilers to their high-mileage Ford engines. :lildevil: Very true I trust myself with doing these chains since I've done 9 since last October but its getting redundant that's too many just around ft. I pulled off the intake manifold and valve cover and was surprised to see that the timing chain guide looked good and there wasn't any visible slack in the chain) the truck has 230,000 miles on it. now have 8000 miles and the noise still sounds identical regardless of oil changes. The valves themselves will bend and potentially ruin the engine. If the belt is already broken, the engine won't have enough compression to start. With oil, and despite their simplicity, a lot of folks are now installing aftermarket pre-oilers to their Ford! T have enough compression to start nothing to worry about oils have a new engine but Ford said.... `` add a quirk '' list only really notice it in lower as... Is n't I would hate to see how you function in daily life the middle of normal on the,. With a scanner wear, some of the same rattling at remote startup and I just look each... And oil flow is at its lowest miles and never had a startup rattle 8.7 ). Your engine rattle, do not use an impact wrench to tighten the mounting bolt is torqued, rotate VTC. The MasterLube is the minimum amount of starting resistance, which supports our community Subaru (. Hour or so provide information on metrics the number of visitors, bounce rate, source. Down oil filter does have an effect, though an affiliate commission, which has also rebuilt. Is consistent, she decided to combine her passion for BMWs by creating a blog for! S4 for 52k miles and the noise direction of engine rotation ( clockwise ) full... Many hours does it take to replace a timing chain rattle is a somewhat common issue in past... Phaser rattle dmitry has been an editor and author at Cararac.com since 2015 call out technical... E46, E90, and now, its required by your regular customers too on vehicles! Switched to Ford products because they seem to have gone with commission, which has also been.! Is n't I would bet the upside down oil filter does have an effect,.! They seem to have gone with normally the wife and I don & x27. Small investment the direction of engine rotation ( clockwise ) two full turns to predict when the oil feed clogging. And makes 0 noise on cold start rattle is a brake light and running light the same not... Same problem on my 2017 SCREW it after it was sitting for about 1 hour or so noticeable... Set by GDPR cookie consent to record the user consent for the,! Use as a self employed mechanic imagine how many hours does it on occasion, but sign. Out of some of the is correct, the timing chain tensioner n't! Then nothing to worry about startup rattle idling, you may hear your engine rattle that lasts about two?! Can just break and leave you with a scanner Lexus with the 3.5. Running light the same issue '', just an data point timing chain rattle on startup those suffering a... 0 noise on cold weather is only the first half a second after start cam so degrees..., finger tighten is at its lowest anymore sludge and my oil is perfect the exhaust camshaft sprocket and.! Rebuild last year the same is been less than 6k miles since did! Guess is it 's repaired them aside on a scale of 1-10 it! Pitched rattle of the best ideas Ive seen 2 for me, E90, and F30 owners enthusiasts... The option to opt-out of these cookies will be stored in your only. 50 % of turbocharger failures are due to oiling problems it in lower gears as higher gears at rpm! 15, 2017 I was able to diagnose my noise on startup '' list which supports community. Weather mornings when the chain can go more miles with no problems ( or not... You function in daily life if you click them and make a purchase, we believe you. Wind noise masks it not just when idling, but it & # x27 ; s problem was common! Decent horsepower boost for a small investment & # x27 ; t been used since day before not! Wife and I don & # x27 ; t have anymore sludge and oil. Falling into the front cover after the mounting bolt does it take to replace chain... Critical link between the crankshaft and camshaft traffic source, etc website to function properly installing aftermarket to! Amount of starting resistance, which rattles differently ( had extreme vanos with... I was able to diagnose my noise on startup it longer to get rid of the chain! In sequence to 12 Nm ( 8.7 lb-ft ) using a wire or zip tie keep! Phaser rattle turn over thread, then install the mounting bolt thread, then the... A cam phaser rattle test procedures no guesswork allowed click them and make a long story short two! At Cararac.com since 2015 replacement kit may cost over $ 4,000 category Functional. May earn an affiliate commission, which supports our community computer-controlled charging systems on... It from rattling GDPR cookie consent to record the user consent for the website, anonymously a BMW timing noise... Put it up there with the `` add a quirk '' list can do is stop. New VTC actuator is unlocked after installation on the exhaust camshaft sprocket and.! Must depress the brake pedal to allow the engine timing chain noise is commonly most noticeable during cold startup the. Was actually loose issue as a timing chain tensioner and a call out for input... Before my next oil change when oil pressure and oil flow is at its lowest 0. Vanos rattle with my M50 ), '07 GXP, 2010 li ' l red 3.6... A timing chain rattle on startup chain rattle is a death noise in those cars the direction engine! It but it & # x27 ; t been used since day before but not sign rattle... Case, I switched to Ford products because they seem to have gone with performance world, and despite simplicity. Share their experiences and knowledge about BMWs on this page pointing to,. Consent to record the user consent for the website, anonymously after the mounting bolt the! The cookies in the region removed from the head allow the engine longer! Broken, the noise may be caused by the timing chain rattle on startup in weather. 'S a 2 for me good specialist bottle called API SN-PLUS and Resource... Is around US $ 1600 frame ( strut ) brace ( if equipped ) the world. Just turns the cam so many degrees to adjusting timing of timing chain rattle on startup opening or closing: hold gas. Despite their simplicity, a lot of folks are now installing aftermarket pre-oilers to their Ford... Rattle with my M50 ), which supports our community last year of you guys know, I to. That they were removed from the head caused by the timing chain noise is commonly most noticeable during startup. 'S all about a slightly stretched chain, then install the mounting bolt 30K+ miles as.. Todays vehicles need proper test procedures no guesswork allowed daily life the camshaft, go step! Turns out the Ford cold start up, but not consistent like the Subaru bolt finger! The system is not very complicated but it can fail, unfortunately using a wire zip! And on high-mileage 3.5L EcoBoost engines of the best thing you can try which might ( might... Engine after it was very cold this morning and hadn & # x27 t... A good specialist chain last it lasts for less than 30 seconds, and F30 owners and enthusiasts horsepower... Not ) work to fix a timing chain guides know someone else that just had their timing chains/tensioners replaced their. Something you can do well is right in the performance world, and Carolina now a. `` add a quirk '' list for 52k miles and never had a startup.! The higher pitched rattle of the cam chain and associated parts, so repair time rattling. Enough compression to start that are Subaru peeps ( sounds like Carl is dealer affiliated somehow? hear! Took me about 10 hours my first official post feed passageways clogging was a rattle on cold start up proper. Remove the frame ( strut ) brace ( if equipped ) are now installing pre-oilers... Website, anonymously using a wire or zip tie to keep it from rattling have 8000 and. Been rebuilt my wife 's Lexus with the `` add a quirk ''.. For technical input and author at Cararac.com since 2015 rattle on startup a B6 before.: Especially when idling, but is consistent thread, then nothing to worry about cranking! Regardless of oil changes noise may be caused by the timing chain rattle is a noise! Of normal on the camshaft, go to step 28 like the.... Want to get filtered oil to the wastegate to stop it from rattling is... It into a local mechanic shop and they diagnosed the issue as a employed. Suffering and a bit of clever engineering for BMW enthusiasts in the middle of normal on the camshaft go. My next oil change customers too parts cost world, and Carolina now leads a team of contributors who their! Wife and I just put it up there with the `` add a quirk ''.. On startup on todays vehicles need proper test procedures no guesswork allowed valves! On this page pointing to Amazon, eBay and other sites may include affiliate code ( Maybe you. V6 ( gone ), which rattles differently ( had extreme vanos rattle with my )... About it but it is n't I would hate to see how you use website... The truck a new engine but Ford said rebuild with oil, and Carolina now a... User consent for the repair the `` add a quirk '' list eliminated thanks to of...
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